Interview with the diretor Marcos Jorge
for Primeiro Plano,
February 2008
1- When did you realize that “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY – A Gastronomic Story” would become your debut in directing? What about this story enticed you?
The screenplay for ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY was developed in an interesting manner and is a story worth telling. Four years ago, Lusa Silvestre sent me three unpublished short stories dealing with food in response to an invitation that I’d sent him to the Sao Paulo premiere of my short film. One of them immediately caught my eye. It narrated the story of man who managed to increase his respect among other prison inmates by cooking for his cellmates. I very much liked the story and suggested to Lusa that we adapt it. But as the story was short and not enough to develop a feature, we had to come up with more. And that’s how we created a whole story for the protagonist of “before” he went to jail and the screenplay was written.
From the beginning, I realized it was one of those universal stories that can be understood by any type of person: mixing power, sex, and cooking in a visceral and organic fashion. I delved deep into the development of the screenplay with tremendous dedication and pleasure (it was one of the best phases in my life). By chance, others soon recognized the value of the story and we were selected in the Ministry of Culture’s Request for Proposals for Low Budget Films, which made the film possible.
2 - From conceptualization to production, what were the challenges that you faced to make your first feature film as a director?
Making movies is a complex task that involves many resources and people and presents many challenges. I think it is worth mentioning a few. First and foremost, in order to make “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY – A Gastronomic Story,” Cláudia da Natividade managed to utilize a famous co-production agreement between Brazil and Italy that has been around since 1974, but has never been fully used. Through much work and patience, she deciphered the law and managed to get Brazilian and Italian government bodies to approve co-production of the film. Thanks to this leg work, “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” could be finalized in Italy.
Another major challenge was shooting “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” with just a million Brazilian Reals, which is the value of the Ministry of Culture’s Low Budget Film grant. Shooting the film over five weeks, as we did, with a large team, a relatively complex movie and many production necessities, we would not have made it on this budget if we had opted to shoot in Sao Paulo. By moving to Curitiba, however, we managed to better control costs and optimize resources, with the support of the state and municipal governments, which facilitated our access to many locations.
But perhaps the greatest challenge was not falling into the clichés that permeate the story: the oppressed prisoners, the depressed prostitute, the melodramatic Italian, pasteurized food, etc... To steer clear of these pitfalls, from the beginning I imagined the characters as multifaceted people and the environments as realistic environments. Just as the food prepared in the film is appetizing despite a lack of hygienic conditions, the characters have clear qualities and defects. And we like them in spite of or precisely because of that.
3 - One of high points of the film is the precision with which the plot is conducted. How many revisions did the screenplay undergo before reaching its final form? By the way, what’s the recipe for a good screenplay?
The recipe for a good screenplay is like a recipe for a good dish: you can list the ingredients, you can list the methods of preparation, you can even tell the chef’s secrets, but if the person who makes the dish can’t cook, the dish won’t be good. So I don’t know how to give a recipe for the screenplay “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY.” In its essence, it was written by Lusa Silvestre and I; he was responsible for the majority of the dialogue and I was for structuring the greater part of the scenes. Claudia da Natividade found the ideal ending for the film, which in a movie like “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY,” is a big deal.
The first version of the script was written very quickly, in something like 30 days, because we had a deadline to participate in the RFP. But it contained all the fundamental elements that would end up in the film. But afterwards, the script underwent several revisions, truly a lot, more or less ten. We never stopped working on it. The most important phases were during the pre-production, when we were gathering suggestions from contributors linked to the film; during rehearsals, when actors shared their ideas, especially dialogs; during shooting, I even wrote a scene one night and shot it the next; during editing; and even during sound editing, we rewrote some of Nonato’s voice overs.
4 - From your point of view, what elements of “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” speak more directly to the Brazilian audience and which to the Italian audience? Was it complicated to meet the demands of the two countries or do you believe that the film has a universal appeal (because it is a fable with many existentialist turns)?
“ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY – A Gastronomic Story” is a Brazilian-Italian co-production (just that, Brazilian-Italian and not Italian-Brazilian), but it was written, directed and made by Brazilians. I did not have to conceptualize the film as a co-production, even the character Giovanni was thought of as an Italian before possibility of a co-production emerged. The many ironies surrounding the Italian character that occur throughout the film are not there because it is a co-production, but because they are intrinsically funny. I lived in Italy for over a decade and I can say that I know Italians well. But it would be ambitious of me to say that I know their tastes in cinema, and I still don’t know if the film will be a success there. But, based on the first reactions from the international festivals “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” has participated in, it seems like a film that is sure to please. Spectators in Rotterdam loved the film, giving it second place out of 200 films. In Berlin, it was a sold out affair days before the screening, even though they were the most expensive tickets in the Berlinale (49 Euros, because it included a dinner after the film) and spectators laughed right through the credits (No exaggeration, you had to be there). And we’ve already sold the film to an interesting series of countries, including Argentina, Israel, Spain, Holland, Canada and Greece, among others. I think the film has a universal appeal. It was not intentional, it just happened, I believe, because of the truth that is narrated in the story.
5 - The metaphor of meat, which is explicit in the brutality with which the characters (especially Nonato and Íria) are treated, makes us think of society as huge people grinder. Is gastronomy a metaphor for humanization – of bringing the spice back to life?
There’s a lovely metaphor in that question and “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” fits perfectly into it. In reality, Brazilian society could well be described as a people grinder, especially of common people, of poor people. “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” describes this unjust system through two major themes: work relations and the prison system. Nonato arrives in the city and immediately is jailed. Not in prison, but in a little room in the back of the bar owned by Zulmiro. And for the privilege of staying there with rats and roaches, he must work like a slave, without any benefits. It is only when he goes to work for Giovanni that he gains a little more freedom. For Nonato, his talent for cooking (which he discovers while cooking to survive) is his only weapon for freedom, affirmation and survival. It’s no coincidence that at the moment in which Nonato begins to cook, the second part of the credits roll up. It is there at that instant that his life reinitiates and so does the film, which from that moment on changes its style, or better, incorporates a new style that is more beautiful than the raw realism used to tell the story up until that point. And every time Nonato’s culinary magic occurs, the film shifts to sweeter level, the music becomes softer, Nonato’s world and that of his companions is much better.
One important facet of “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” is that despite its fabulous appearance, it is a realistic film, especially when it comes to the protagonists. The story is completely made up, but could have happened.
6 - How did you prepare to film inside the prison? What specifics did you look for in the prison environment?
One can say that we were very lucky with the locations for ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY.” Following our quest for realism in the film, “ESTÔMAGO” was entirely filmed on location and the art director only modified scenes to enrich the existing environments. Zulmiro’s Bar really exists; it's located in downtown Curitiba in an area known as “cracolândia” (Crackland). The kitchen of the Boccaccio restaurant is a kitchen in one of the oldest restaurants in the city, and the clubs are real, just as is Íria’s boarding house. But our biggest stroke of luck was the prison. Initially we thought about building a cell in the studio and shooting the complementary scenes of the corridor in a real prison within a one-day shoot. We visited Curitiba’s main prisons with this in mind and focused on the oldest facility in the city, Presídio do Ahú, built over 100 years ago. We had already negotiated a way to film inside the prison when we were told that if we waited a little longer, the facility would be closed down and we could film inside as long as we wanted. And that’s what we did. The prison was shut down and the prisoners moved to another unit outside the city. The prisoners were removed with only the clothes on their backs, leaving behind all their personal effects. So all we had to do was build a cell with two false walls (that we removed when necessary) and we utilized the real objects left behind by prisoners as props. To guarantee total realism, we called our prison consultant, Luiz Mendes, to rehearsals to help out in all areas. So we filmed at the prison for more than two weeks. And it was not easy because something inside there always made it clear to all of us that the place where we were working was a place of suffering.
7 - You had a prison consultant, former inmate Luiz Mendes Jr., develop the penitentiary scenes. Despite his tragic past, Mendes left prison as a writer and columnist. Do you believe there is hope for the Brazilian penitentiary system?
Luiz Mendes left prison as a writer on his own merits, through incredible efforts of his own, not as a result of any action from the system. Unfortunately, from what I have seen and read during the research phase of the film, the Brazilian penal system does not rehabilitate anyone, on the contrary. The system is terribly efficient in punishing, but not in doing what is expected, rehabilitating the individual to live in society.
8 - “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” gives one the impression that it is the product of a well –run kitchen. What was it like to be the chef of this undertaking? And how would you define the taste of the dish that became this film?
I believe that there was a great deal of unity in the team that made “ESTÔMAGO” And as your question implies there is a great similarity between cooking and cinema. Like a cook, the director also mixes different elements, seeking harmony as the final result.
It was a privilege being the chef of the kitchen that prepared “ESTÔMAGO”. Besides the excellent ingredients, I must say that team that prepared was sensational. Just look at Toca Seabra’s beautiful, powerful photography , the music of Giovanni Venosta (inspired by the spaghetti westerns of the 60s), the meticulous editing of Luca Alverdi (who spent three months locked in a hotel adjusting the photograms with the patience of Job). As far as defining what type of dish “ESTÔMAGO” is, well I’d have to think about that. It is certainly a bold dish, with a distinct flavor, bittersweet in some moments, savory in others, and ends leaving a bitter taste in one’s mouth.
9 - By putting João Miguel, Babu Santana and Paulo Miklos together, “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” ended up with the three big names of Brazilian cinema in this decade. How significant is this cast? Do you think Fabiula Nascimento is next to enter stardom?
The process of choosing and training the cast of “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” was slow and cumbersome. The selection of each actor had a different story and path.
For the character of “Íria,” for example, we held auditions in São Paulo, Rio and Curitiba with over 100 actresses. It took me a while to decide to trust a rookie in such an important role, but Fabiula Nascimento ended up convincing me with her presence, talent and absolute dedication to the job and the character. I am confidant that if she learns how to manage her career, she will become a star.
Babu Santana’s name was mentioned early on, after his excellent work in the film “Quase Dois Irmãos” (Almost Brothers), directed by Lúcia Murat. But he still had to compete with other extraordinary actors like Flávio Bauraqui and Leandro Firmino in auditions and interviews.
For the character of “Giovanni,” we initially thought of a famous Italian actor, Diego Abantantuono, but it became evident that if the film was set in Brazil we needed an Italian who spoke excellent Portuguese. So Carlo Briani, given the coincidences in his life and that of the character’s, became the obvious choice.
Even João Miguel, the absolute protagonist of the film was a delicate choice: Nonato was almost someone else until the moment when I met with João and realized that he could give the character a rich, strong personality.
Paulo Miklos, on the other hand, was chosen early on. While still writing the script, I began to think of Paulo in the role of Etcetera, as a small tribute to Brazilian cinema and to Beto Brant as the emblematic thrust behind the new generation of filmmakers.
10 - In Rio, there are many waiters that become owners of restaurants. What prompted you to write about Raimundo Nonato – or Rosemary, the character played by João Miguel – the man who discovers a road to social inclusion through gastronomy?
As you observed, gastronomy in the real world is an excellent means of social inclusion. This really happens and “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” uses this fact to tell the story of our hero. One question raised by the film, which I believe still has not been totally understood, is the question of the nordestino [native of Brazil’s impoverished northeastern region] in the south of Brazil. Raimundo Nonato, in the story by Lusa Silvestre that inspired the film, was nordestino because nordestinos are the best cooks and chefs that work in São Paulo’s and Rio’s restaurants. But in the film, this is coupled with the fact the nordestino men and women who arrive in Southern metropolises with nothing are exploited by Southerners. This critical eye on the exploitation of the poor migrant is clear: first Nonato is practically incarcerated by the owner of a bar where he works in exchange for food and shelter, without the right to a salary; later, he goes to work – truthfully, with much more dignity - for the owner of an Italian restaurant, whose playful character does not hide his prejudice in referring to him as “paraiba” or “ceara,” although Nonato constantly affirms that he is from neither of the two northeastern states. In the cell, the other prisoners treat him the same way, adding another prejudiced insult in calling him “parmalat.” These “crossed prejudices” are not the film’s main themes, but are there obviously for spectators to reflect upon. And to laugh as well, since intelligent laughter is the best form of criticism.
11 - Do you consider this film an ode to gastronomy?
Certainly, and it is an ode to “down-home gastronomy,” the cooking found in neighborhood diners. From the beginning, this was my intention: to make a film about cooking that was different from others on the theme. Generally, culinary films deal with haute cuisine. Take for example Vatel, Like Water for Chocolate, Simply Martha or, more than any other, Babette’s Feast. Even The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover is set in a fine restaurant. In “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY”, what we wanted to show was common dishes and their precarious preparation. But we still wanted spectators to leave the film hungry. Even with the terrible sanitary conditions of the kitchen at Zulmiro’s Bar, the spectator wants to try the pastel (wonton) that Nonato makes there. And that is exactly what I wanted. “ESTÔMAGO - A GASTRONOMIC STORY” is a declaration of love to cooking. In words of Giovanni, or those of Íria or Bujiú, food is the love that satisfies everyone.
